Welcome to Jester's Trek.
I'm your host, Jester. I've been an EVE Online player for about six years. One of my four mains is Ripard Teg, pictured at left. Sadly, I've succumbed to "bittervet" disease, but I'm wandering the New Eden landscape (and from time to time, the MMO landscape) in search of a cure.
You can follow along, if you want...

Wednesday, October 30, 2013

If you're gonna do something dumb

I'm going to make this quick.

Sometimes, I feel like Youtube is built on the premise of "if you're gonna do something dumb, why not videotape it."  So many of its more entertaining videos are built around people doing crazy, stupid, or flat-out illegal things.  Sometimes those things go viral and suddenly people become famous for all the wrong reasons.  But particularly when you're doing something illegal, why would you need video proof?  And if you needed video proof, why oh why oh why would you upload the video proof to the Internet?

And that brings me to Poetic Stanziel.  A minute or so after I publish this post, I'm going to be removing him from the list of blogs on the right side of the screen, but I thought I'd point to the truly genius-level post that prompted it.  Here it is, in which Poetic Stanziel advertises that he's clearly way smarter than CCP and he RMT'ed all of his PLEXes from the sale of his assets including his main.  At this point, he declares he has nothing but contempt for CCP and for EVE Online's players.  Go give it a read.

EDIT (1/Nov/2013): The blog post in question, in which the author brags of selling a large number of PLEXes for $1300 U.S., has been deleted.  You can view the graphic version of it here and the text version of it here.

Now, there's not a lot in this piece that isn't flavored with wrong, but there's two particular wrongs that I'd like to focus on:
  1. Poe has no idea whatsoever how EVE's database works; and,
  2. he seems to think that CCP is filled to the brim with dumb people.
And again, I'm gonna make this quick, but let's look at both of these.

Here's what Poe says about the first thing:
Now CCP can correct me if I'm wrong, this is only supposition, but I think items are only directly attached to players if they are a top-level item. Items inside ships and containers are lower-level items. If you place an item in a container, that item's owner is the container. The container's owner is the player. So anything in a container is directly owned by that container and indirectly owned by the container's owner (the player.) The container is the top-level object, anything inside the container are low-level objects.

I think CCP, perhaps due to the way their database is structured, only looks for top-level malfeasance.
And this is so ridiculously wrong that all I can do is shake my head in wonder.  Ten minutes spent with JEVEassets would convince anyone that this "supposition" is not only wrong, but is freakishly wrong.  But Poe apparently blithely proceeded on it.

The second bit, though, is even more entertaining.  The problem with Poe's PLEX sale is that people have known for a while now generally where Poe lives.  And the only way to sell that number of PLEXes he's talking about in that kind of magnitude is on eBay.  And there are only so many illegal PLEX sales on eBay.  And there are only so many people who live in the country that Poe lives in selling PLEXes on eBay.  And it wasn't that hard for three separate people to contact me, point to the very same eBay account, and say, "you know, I think this is Poe."

So that eBay account has been passed along to CCP.  It has the dates and times of multiple PLEX sales, and has correlating dates and times of the positive comments left by those who purchased the PLEXes, presumably after they received them that can be used with a fair degree of accuracy to determine the source and destination of the PLEXes.

Poe still has one media EVE account... he's said so.  I don't have any inside facts, but I think we can guess what's gonna happen to it.  And if you were dumb enough to buy PLEXes on eBay -- particularly these PLEXes? -- chances are pretty good you're going to see your wallet drain to negative numbers.

If you're gonna do something dumb...

76 comments:

  1. Of all the people who blog about EVE, Poe always struck me as one of the least worthy to spend any time reading. He never was the brightest bulb on the tree. His departure from the game is most welcome and, hopefully, permanent.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Funny that it took Poe to frame my disgust with the whole thing...

      "...CCP Games made it clear that they were going to ignore their EULA where certain in-game groups (i.e., Somer Blink) were concerned, simply because those groups help CCP's bottom line through GTC sales..."

      Lemme repeat... "...because those groups help CCP's bottom line through GTC sales..."

      CCPs Bottom Line... does anyone get it yet? CCP is a FOR PROFIT company that OWNS and SELLS time on their servers playing EVE Online and DUST 514 to the public for PROFIT.

      Anything they do that is LEGAL, and the EULA is not LAW, it's company policy and therefore subject to change at their sole discretion... anything they do as regards their income is their decision... period.

      And, TB perfectly H... anything that increases CCPs income stream and supports playing the game, which SOMER did in spades... (can't tell you how often I have typed in chat, "Promo homo" in response to someone else's "Promo!"...) SOMERBlink may have made some RL money yes, but they did it to promote the game, it helped CCP make more real ISK and all the rest is just bitter poetic tears...

      Delete
  2. Poetic Discourse was one of the first blogs I read, and got me interested in creating my own site. I'm disappointed with him. And more so, since his Eve blog is still on the Fansite list. What a way to treat the company that showed him so much trust in the past.

    ReplyDelete
  3. My entire issue with what Poe did (alongside the idiots doing their song-and-dance of "Somer-style RMT") is that it's being basically the worst kind of hypocrite. Protesting an action by engaging in said action is one of the stupid tactics I can imagine. It's like, I dunno, Anonymous protesting against censorship by censoring people. Or, to use a different analogy, protesting terrorism by being a terrorist.

    It's a completely ass-backwards way of getting a point across, and I have no respect for anyone who is dumb enough to think it's a good idea.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Seems like a pretty good way to leave the game to me...

      I've been very disenfranchised by CCP's last couple months of bullshit, from their retroactive banning for 'new' infractions, to all this cuddling with somer blink.

      More than once, it has crossed my mind that I should 'cash out' and recover whatever I can out of my accounts/assets/characters. In fact I'm considering it now, more than ever. Hypocritical? Sure, but why the hell not? If I no longer care about the game, and I have the opportunity to recoup cash, why wouldn't I?

      Kinda moot point now given: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3810082#post3810082

      But still...

      None of this makes Poetic any less of an idiot though. What a knob.

      Delete
    2. He really seems like the 'I'm smarter than everyone else' type of neckbeard. Also, internet anonymity + normal person = dickwad.

      Delete
    3. It's not really the same though. Oftentimes the best way to get a change made is to show the flaws in the existing system, especially when words do nothing. Many security loopholes are closed in technology by someone proving the loophole first by demonstrating it on working tech, in fact a lot of software companies pay you to tell them when you find a way to breach their security.

      And in this situation Katarina publicly engaging in Somer style RMT urged CCP to take action.

      Sure, I don't agree with Poe committing full scale RMT, but he's not the first and won't be the last to RMT upon quitting.

      Delete
  4. How is Ebay likely to treat him after he sells something, getting positive feedback, then taking actions that are highly likely to cause the buyer to lose what they purchased ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Depends whether the people he sold to leave negative feedback.

      Delete
  5. "At this point, he declares he has nothing but contempt for CCP and for EVE Online's players."

    That's always been the case. I could never understand the amount of support that poe fostered. Any intelligent being who happened across his blog should have realized a long time ago that poe had nothing but contempt for CCP and to a slightly lesser extent, EvE players. Be ashamed if you supported this man.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You mean he acted like SOMER? Oh the horror!

      Delete
  6. I don't question that Poe did something dumb for writing the post, making his buyers suffer the consequences.

    But you are ignoring the main point of his article: that he could RMT away 125 PLEX-es without CCP noticing (until he came out yelling "I did it").

    This means that CCP either totally incompetent in fighting RMT or turns a blind eye. I found something similar, when I found obvious bots that CCP couldn't find: http://greedygoblin.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-extraordinary-evidence-that-ccp.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. problem gelvon is that like POE you assume that the checks happen immediately. somehow people see 125 plex as a large amount, and to be sure it isn't chump change territory, but the small amounts he talked about moving around? all but the 40 in one sale are rather small. it takes time to look at all the logs related to things and track down someone doing illegal rmt.

      Correct my if I am wrong, but there is nothing that says I cannot give in game assets to someone, even if its for out of game reasons (like giving someone a plex/ship for their birthday)? At that point they need to actually see some kind of evidence of $ changing hands. and that takes time. a player "cashing out" is probably gonna cash out successfully, unless they have really TONS of assets, because by the time there is enough evidence the player has split.

      Delete
    2. And what is so bad about 125 plex? That is worth what 1-3 months of farming isk?

      I would not be surprised if this number of plex are giving away each day from one player who leaves the game. EVE is small, but we still have 300,000 players. 10 plex are in range for my christmas presents budget, and POE was definitely quitting the game. Liquidizing all assets, characters including and giving away everything in form of plex is a very clear sign for someone who leaves the game. Giving away all your stuff is not unusual in this context either.

      Delete
  7. I asked for my media account to be rescinded weeks ago, because I wanted to sell Poe for ISK.

    And I knew that all my EVE accounts would be banned. That was a given. But considering they've been stripped of all value, what do I care?

    I'm pretty sure RMT is only a slap in the face to CCP Games, not the players ... unless you don't like ETC/Plex sales at all, in which case you should have a problem with CCP too.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Actually your attitude is a slap in the face to everyone that reads your statements.

      "What do I care?" --- How about caring for the integrity that comes from not fucking over the people you directly deal with? You sold those PLEXs for the express purpose of cashing yourself out. Fine, you made a choice that everyone disagrees with. It's the part where you then fuck over the people you sold the characters and PLEX to that proves your personal lack of integrity and honesty. Those who bought PLEX from you deserve their neg wallets, but don't expect that anyone is going to express support or trust in any dealings with you.

      Delete
    2. Are you referring to him fucking over the cheating assholes who bought PLEX? Those guys? FUCK THEM

      Delete
    3. Hi would like to buy the character Poetic Stanziel via the approved methods for a couple of reasons:
      1. I want to create a number of corpses to be handed out to people who dislike Poetic Stanziel.
      2. I can also then pod Poe back to an alpha clone with no skills.
      3. The characters bio can be appropriately updated.

      Delete
  8. What a fall for the guy.

    Went from an influential, albeit controversial, voice in a large community to another average tv show/game/whatever reviewer. Like the internet didn't have enough of those.

    He completely trashed any credibility and respect I and many others had for him.

    I can't help but feel he did it just to get one last Eve-drama hurrah. Oh well, time for him to fade into obscurity.

    ReplyDelete
  9. A couple of things come to mind:

    1) Someone, somewhere, once said: "By the time some people realize they need advice, they're long past the point where it would do any good."

    2) The continuing EVE commentary from someone who publicly stated he was quitting the game brings to mind the old Dan Hicks song, "How Can I Miss You..."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just for the record, Jester continued his EVE commentary long after quitting EVE - until EVE sucked him back in :)

      Delete
  10. Oh, and their security department is pretty fucking stupid:

    http://www.publicdemands.co.uk/showthread.php?24253-Behind-the-scenes-view-of-Seergs-sudden-departure-from-CCP

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As a journalist, you're pretty fucking stupid. Do you understand the difference between free speech and 'yelling fire in a crowded theatre'?
      Your actions were stupid, immature and premature. At best, you've openly attempted to sabatauge the community in an 'if I can't have fun, no body can' hissy fit.
      If I were you, I'd write an apology to the Eve community and leave like you said you would in order to salvage what little dignity you can.

      Delete
    2. Way to censor your own blog, deleting your own entries and all. Hope you enjoy that 1300$, Poe. Hope it was worth all of your credibility.

      Delete
  11. But he sold all of his chars, so why should he care about negative wallet? Or do you mean the dude who bought the ISK/plex?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Once his ebay buyers find the product not valid (negative wallet) they can simply have paypal reverse the transaction.

      Delete
  12. Poe may or may not be wrong in his assumption about RMT sweeps. There's obviously a "container hierarchy" -- the in-game asset search doesn't dig down it, nor do the Blueprint tabs in the Industry screen, though out-of-game asset managers can. Standard sweeps may well stop at the top level, that depends on how much resource the Devs devote to fishing trips, but it's clear they can dig deeper should they wish. Or if they are prompted to by some blog-post...

    ReplyDelete
  13. To be fair tho, RMTing is not illegal IRL. He got a pretty buck out of it and I doubt he'll care about the people who bought Plex from him.

    The worst thing that could happen would probably be for someone to drive by his house and throw eggs on the windows ... Anything worse chance are pretty good they'll get caught - after all money can be traced from Poe to the buyers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Except that you don't own your ingame assets in Eve, CCP does, so selling them for real money is fraud in most jurisdictions.

      Delete
    2. I can't sell the assets but I can sell access to them.

      Delete
    3. this is actually untrue. I dont remember the suit, But basically once CCP charged the first Cent for Ingame property they gave ownership to the players. Charging a monthly fee is one thing. They have a basic Cash Exchange in EvE from RWM to ISK. So they no longer have any right to claim any property inside the game.

      Delete
  14. Even if they get the people that bought plexes though, they still can do nothing to Poe. I don't think he will much care what their balances are going to be, he's already made the cash, and they can't reclaim it since they received the product and we're undoubtedly warned it was against the EULA.
    So the real dumbasses are the people that bought plex off of an RMTer. If they do get caught and punished, it could be argued that Poe has done the game a favour.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes. A EULA is only enforceable against an EU.

      And Poetic may have done the game a real service, in what must be a crowning irony.

      Delete
  15. Honestly, I'm not sure whether to care about this or not - at least the RMT aspect. Whatever, it still all involves money in CCP's pocket at the end of the day. What really makes me facepalm here is that, for some reason, Poe decided that he wanted to talk about how clever he was - and thus royally screw over everyone that purchased from him.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Somer Blink has operated for years now and it's not some obscure website. Poe was a happy user and even used them to get his GTC.

    Then suddenly the community changes his view on Sumer Blink, calls RMT the practice everybody enjoyed in the past and CCP is all evil for letting them operate. Poe reaction is once again hysterical.

    I am not surprised and I don't know why sites like yours or eve news reported any of his crazy rants in the past.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I feel the same way as Dino, and don't get why so few people say it.
      If Somer was earning a few dozen dollars, like what's needed to pay for the server, no-one would care. After all, it would not be much different from advertisement on any EVE related fan site.
      But it seems it worked too well, he made too much money, and so people were mad that he "cheated". I call that bullshit and jealousy.
      The guy selling the PLEXes was doing it legally to CCP, the guys buying them also. I don't call the comissions that Somer got in the way RMT, it may be legally, but on my mind it doesn't count. No one is hurt in the process. So it's not bad.

      Delete
    2. It's RMT and CCP has to stop it but it's silly to be mad at CCP for letting it happen when nobody noticed it was RMT until recently.

      I don't know what Poe expect? Somer, his staff and everybody how bought GTC from them, including Poe, should get banned?

      Delete
  17. So how is blink different from themittani.com? They pay their contributors isk to generate content to drive people to the site to produce advertising revenue. isk to cash, is that rmt then?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, in the same way that people win isk through Somer, and Somer are free to earn ad revenue from the visitors that go there to win and lose. Ad revenue is ad revenue.

      What Somer did was quite different, which was essentially selling ETC + ISK for the price of an ETC, bundling the isk into the ETC payment to disguise the fact that it's RMT.

      Delete
    2. This is clearly something that CCP is going to have to think hard about, but it's very easy to make a distinction between pure RMT and everything else. From CCPs perspective The Mittani is taking ISK, using it to generate content that is useful to CCP and the playerbase and then profiting off that. Same with Blink I guess.

      Whereas straight RMTing is legally messier and provides basically no benefit or content to the playerbase except for the people involved

      Delete
  18. I've read all of maybe 4 of "Poe's" posts and the blatant shilling he did for them to generate traffic on the Eve-O forums. I'm surprised it took you this long to unlink the fool.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I particularly like his response to my comment?

    Me: "Are you against RMT?"
    Paraphrased him: For other people but it's ok for me.

    I was hoping you would post something like this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ok, it's time to put the cynical hat:

      "I sold my character in Anarchy Online and Lord of the Rings Online. I'm not against players selling assets."

      "The regular player cashing out as they leave a game, that doesn't bother me at all."

      These can only mean he had something like that planned all along. The Somergate was just an awesome excuse to execute this now instead of later and give people second thoughts about his true intentions.

      Maybe, without this, he would have returned later and played some more years, but ultimately, yeah, it's pretty clear he was going to do this anyway.

      So don't take this for anything other that what it is, plain RMT.

      Delete
    2. Well your paraphrasing is pretty far from what he actually said.
      What he said is that he's not against players cashing out when they leave, but he's against farming for RMT.
      Honestly, I'm not sure where I stand on the same thing. When a player stops playing a single player game, they trade it in so someone that wants it can buy it. With an MMO it would be the equivalent. He's only trading a preowned game essentially. If CCP were smart, they would make this an official thing, where a player can trade their account to another player, and CCP takes a cut, say 25%. At the moment when a player leaves, CCP gets nothing. This would mean they get 25% of the value of the account when a player leaves. Win-win.

      "Gold farming" is different though. People generally bot to support large scale RMT, and that botting damages the game's economy, put strain on the hardware and restricts options available to legit players.

      So I guess thinking about it, I'd be on the same page as him with that one.

      Delete
    3. "If CCP were smart, they would make this an official thing"

      I will just assume you are trolling; it's simply not possible that you are such a colossal idiot to say something like this in good faith.

      Where the hell did you get that braindead idea that selling a couple physical media of used games is the same as selling in-game assets in an MMO accumulated over years (and not necessarily by what the outside world considers lawful methods)? Apples and oranges, can you understand that?

      The moment CCP allows a stable, sanctioned method for converting isk to $ they become a financial institution that issues money, we all become tax evaders and scamming in-game becomes real felony.

      And don't give me the line "hurf durf Sumer something something", they are closing that hole. They don't have the option to let that scheme going.

      Delete
    4. Uh maybe because I wasn't talking about selling in game items? I was talking about selling accounts, complete with characters, items, etc. Exactly the same as when you trade in a game. Allowing players to trade their whole accounts when they leave and taking a cut would get income for CCP, while currently what people do is like Poe, trade their characters and items for plex then sell the plex on ebay.
      So the sales already are happening, but CCP don't get a cut. It's not illegal, and the most CCP can do is ban the player, but what's the point in banning a player that has already quit? How much will Poe care about being banned?

      Tax evasion is separate and not an issue for CCP to deal with. It's up to you to declare your additional income, and always has been.

      So in the same way that music downloads were hugely cut because providers started to offer cheap and easy ways to download music (music unlimited, spotify, xbmusic, etc), CCP could cut down RMT by offering an official service to allow a player to cash out, and make cash from it themselves. Rather than players leaving simply becoming a loss of income, they could provide a burst of income when they go.

      Delete
  20. Not at all unexpected.

    I don't know what exactly is issues are, but he has on on occasion veered into the 'the world is mean, so I can be mean to' - self justification logic. Self-destructive behaviour that he can attribute to others (here CCP, Eve Uni directors in the past).

    Sad, but not out of the blue.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Why would he care about losing a media account in a game he no longer plays, and why would he care suckers who bought PLEX off of him get punished?

    ReplyDelete
  22. Being a IT Student, after tons of reading on EVE Forums and doing testing new changes on test server.

    I know eve online's stored infomrations is in SQL Databases which is very easy code a procedure or a SQL request to generate the link from Poe's PLEXes to the buyer. Because SQL Database is a relationnel database so everything are linked in some ways. Like bridges between groups of information.

    Warning, below contains IT informations :
    Like with Northwind as best database for studying for IT Students :
    Customers's ID belongs to Customer table but in Orders Table also contains OrderID but Customers and Orders arent directly linked but bridged by a table Customers-Orders. If i wanted get his sales information of a parculiar person, i just write a SQL that only ask Customers and Orders Table and you got it all.

    In eve online, everything can be recorded in a way if this information is not repeatable for everything like the date of destruction of your ship or being shooted by a aggrestor.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow... Finish that IT course.

      What Poe was getting at is that he believes the structure is as follows:

      [Player] -> [Ship] -> [Container] -> [Item]
      If there are separate tables for this, it's easy, but if the table structure is:
      [Owners] -> [Items]
      where an item can also be an owner of other items. Then an owner for the item is the container, the owner for the container is the ship, and the owner for the ship is the player.
      Trading the ship + contents would be a case of updating only the player ID on the top level container (the ship), not the individual IDs underneath it, therefore the log would only audit the top level container, not it's contents.

      Oftentimes when a database is like this, recursion is quite a heavy process to undertake (comparatively), so automated processes tend to be limited on the number of levels they can see, and Poe was assuming they didn't recurs more than a couple of times.

      Realistically, since they want the ability to audit, it's more likely that the Item -> container structure is separate to their Owner -> item structure.
      Also we know from history that some items, such as plex, have specific tracking information regardless of containers.

      I'd bet that CCP are smart enough to figure out junior level database mechanics, so chances are he was just lucky that they didn't get to his activity in time.

      Delete
    2. TBH, taking poe's structure for truth, one would add a transaction log table in which you simply write the transactions that happen.

      Then if anything happens that's bad. suspicious activity, screwed up item, faulty whatever. One can simply follow the transactions to find out what happened, where it went wrong or who the source of a certain item was.

      Delete
  23. I think Poe wanted his customers to get caught and set negative. He's a bad loser who is bitter he didn't win at Eve blogging and wants to hit back at the Eve community.

    At the battle of 6VDT in the Fountain War it transpired that a few of us bloggers shot each other. Me and The Ancient Gaming Noob took it in good part. Poe seemed really furious that he'd been picked on because of name recognition.

    Maybe by calling him primary I helped rid Eve of him. Hope so. What a twonk.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ZOMG!!! I have been hailed and got shout outs 'n such when passing thru Empire... I have had bad men hold fire because they recognized my name... I have been shot at and killed for the same reason... Mab's & my bloggin may have played some small part in SYJ targeting us back when...

      Either way I was always pleased someone I had never met recognized 'me' well enough to take the time to do or say something based solely on the fact that they knew my name... from holding fire to targeting with intent... it was and always is a thrill... =]

      Delete
  24. That didn't exactly break any past patterns of behavior I suppose: Faux or overwrought drama based on the situational needs of the author was always his basic style. Now we see the big cash out where he couldn't even just take the money and walk away, but had to indulge in one last bit of drama to screw over the people he sold the PLEX to. He should try out for some reality TV program, because he clearly didn't come here to make friends.

    I wonder what Dinsdale Piranha would say about Poe joining, if temporarily, the alleged RMT legions?

    ReplyDelete
  25. So just for fun, I did an Ebay search for EVE PLEX, filtered the results to only show completed listings, and easily spotted the group from Poe's home country, all from the same user with identical listings.

    Although he claims he made $1340 USD, there are only $756.16 of actual sales. Another $600 for 40 plex in 4 listings never actually sold. Just one more exaggeration on the story. I guess that's to be expected.

    ReplyDelete
  26. I've always hated Poe, his site, and his writing. I often comment on his threads to correct his grammar and it never fails to amuse me that he makes the corrections but never posts the message.

    HOWEVER, he only did what others are doing, just with more fanfare. Anyone who bought the PLEXs should have been aware that they were already crossing the line into "illegal" EVE territory. They knew and they did it anyway. I have no sympathy for them, and it's hard to imagine why anyone else would.

    As for contempt, it's hard to square your contempt for his contempt in light of a game mechanic that encourages, fosters, and supports scamming in its many forms. What greater contempt can you show for someone that to join their group and then steal their stuff, blow them up, and laugh about it? It doesn't matter that it's within the context of the game; they're still contemptuous of their targets' "stupidity" or "lack of security" or whatever excuse they choose.

    Poe acted on a realization that many others have had or are now having as a result of Somer: EVE is about exploiting other people. The mega-alliances treat their rank and file like serfs while the nobility reap the benefits of their labor. The lotteries, GTC sellers, and that lot are busy monetizing gameplay and warping the game world in the process. CCP does whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and speaks out of both sides of its mouth. They are free to do as they please, but blatant favoritism (or utter stupidity) on the part of certain Devs, inconsistent application of their rules and policies, and general ineptitude have increasingly thrown back the curtain and revealed a dysfunctional and, yes, contemptible game company. They, like Mittens, Ricdic, Reithe, Bad Bobby, and all the rest, think we're stupid. And they treat us accordingly.

    I'm not surprised or angry Poe did what he did. I just wish I hadn't given away all my ISK when I quit. I had a lot more ISK than Poe and I could have made a lot more money.

    ReplyDelete
  27. There are specific points that need to be taken away from Poetic's post, and questions that deserve answers from each individual:

    1) If certain groups can curry favor and the rules don't apply to them then why should the rules apply to anyone?

    2) Player agreements with CCP and not contractual, they are arrangements of trust. CCP is breaking that trust. What should individual players do?

    3) As a customer paying for a service from a company, should we, the players continue to pay for that service and support CCP?

    Love or hate Poetic, his points needs to be taken seriously... CCP is allowing certain groups to do things that would get anyone else banned by their own rules. I don't support his choice of action, but his level of disappointment and frustration is shared.

    -Jester, you of all people should be tackling the big questions, not personally going after individual players -even if their choices are rather stupid.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Jester, you of all people should be tackling the big questions, not personally going after individual players -even if their choices are rather stupid."

      Not anymore. Remember how he explained the whole SOMER thing in terms of jealousy and then promptly retracted that when CCP admitted they screwed up? Jester's not in charge anymore, Garth is, and you can see it in his writing.

      Delete
    2. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. How much in PLEX sales does Poe need to hit before his perma ban gets converted into a gentle reminder to please mind the TOS? I'd like to know 'cause I have some assets to offload... Seriously though, this is an excellent post. Absolutely spot on.

      Delete
    3. +1.

      I've never been too fond of Poe's wiriting, either, but he did raise some good points. Points which have been lost in the "OMG I can't believe you made that post" foolishness.

      Delete
  28. I will simply point to the past a few years back. I'm too lazy to do research to nail it down, but one of the expansions some time ago, say 2009ish, included back end work on the database. Something to do with adding more digits available for item IDs. As I remember it, the dev blog for this change publicly stated that this was done so that every single item in the game could have a unique ID and CCP wouldn't ever have to worry about running out of numbers. There was discussion in the community that this would prevent untraceable exchanges of isk through the use of portable items of high value.
    Considering all that, the mere supposition that hiding something in a container makes it more difficult to trace is laughable at best.
    Just like the rest of his behavior.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Concerning PLEX sales on eBay. The way it is done is not by trading actual PLEX in game, but by the seller and the buyer both being in Jita 4/4 and the seller trades an amount of a commodity to the buyer that the buyer can then sell to sell orders in Jita 4/4 for ISK. Here is a copy/paste from am eBay PLEX sellers email.
    ----------------

    Hello, I am sending you this message because my method of delivering plex to you is different than that of other sellers, it's safer. I have a perfect feedback record on ebay - Proof that people are happy with this method and with the service I provide to them.

    This method is low profile and means you never have to worry about a reversal. What I shall do is give you the isk value of the plexes, in a resource. I calculate the value of the resource based on what you can sell them for immediately to market buy orders in Jita IV-4 Caldari navy assembly plant. This means I can assure you that you will instantly receive the full amount of isk just seconds after I trade you. You won't need to mess around trying to sell them for a good price, you just click sell and sell immediately to fill already placed buy orders.

    To ensure this works, make sure you sell in simple mode mode and not advanced, advanced incurs extra taxes and is not an instant sale. Copy what I do in this screenshot and you can't go wrong. http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9991/sellmode1.jpg

    You will receive more isk from using this method, than you would have if you received plex directly from me with the intention to sell them. That's because using my method you'll receive the full isk value of the plexes, because I give you enough extra to cover the market tax.

    If you have any doubts, take a look at my feedback, 100% positive. That's 2 years worth of feedback and every single customer gave me positive top ratings.

    This method works out exactly the same as giving you plexes, yet it's a great deal safer. If you have any problems just message me and I will help you. With the isk now in your wallet, do what you want with it, even buy plex, if that's what you wanted.

    Dock in Jita IV-4 Caldari navy assembly plant, I will trade you there, please let me know how long you will be and if you're happy to go ahead with this transaction. If you haven't sent your character name yet you'll need to send that to me.

    Please do not convo me or mail me directly in EVE online, please use email or ebay messages only.

    I'll be at jita ready to trade you most of the time, providing you reply to tell me when you expect to arrive.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I think the bigger question is this:

    We now have proof that CCP turns a blind eye to RMT operations (or really were too dumb to figure out that Somer was RMT'ing on a massive scale, until it all became too public).

    So the question that is out there is how many RMT operations, where the operators are way way smarter than Poetic, and strive to keep a low low profile, are out there.

    If you are a group that has trillions flowing through your hands every month from rental income and moon goo ops, and you were best buds with the ex-chief security guy, maybe you could come up with a method of RMT operations that is very difficult to find, and gives everyone plausible deniability if the truth is ever exposed.

    ReplyDelete
  31. I was willing to give Poe the benefit of the doubt, mainly because I figured he was trolling. I mean, piss off both CCP & eBay? All someone has to do is send the information that Poe violated eBay's sale of virtual items ban and he could get kicked off eBay for life. Probably not for a first offense, but still, why risk the black mark?

    ReplyDelete
  32. I think this sums up my reaction:

    http://tinyurl.com/3eppxyu

    ReplyDelete
  33. NOM NOM NOM

    Tears and EVE drama are juicy. At least Poe committed EVE-Suicide in a hilarious and permanent fashion. I have to admit I'm enjoying watching the fallout from the sidelines. Thanks for the entertainment.

    ReplyDelete
  34. So... I happen to have a scary amount of RL information on Poe, provided by the Uni's intel department, back when he was acting extra stalky.

    I know you aren't supposed to make players RL information public, but what about *ex* players who have since been permabanned and have committed fraud, so people can drop by in person and say "Hi" as he won't be able to read his EVEmail any more...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just be the better man and don't publish that information anywhere. It can only have negative consequensces for you or Eve Uni.
      As Poe (and somer) noticed, public opinion does matter. I lol-ed at your comment about buying Poe's account. Too bad that he won't do that, he has no use for ingame money anymore.

      Delete
    2. No.

      Don't try to mess with his own logic. Just because somebody does wrong, it ain't ethical to return the favor.

      Stick to, "I told you so.", and while that also isn't showcasing a perfect character trait, it is still better (and more common) than the truly vicious kick in the behind. He already is on his way out, he doesn't need any more help.

      Delete
    3. No, Kelduum, you should not do _anything_ with that RL information other than destroy it. If you were to post it and - heaven forfend - something should happen, you as the originator of that information could be held to some account for it, potentially even criminal account depending upon what happened and what the laws of the locale involved are. Best just to put it all aside and forget this person who has vexed you so.

      Delete
  35. All Poe has ever done is pick a topic, and try to be important by beating it to death. First it was anti-Euni, then ganking is great, then it was mittani is awesome, followed by CSM, then goons are awesome, then anti-ccp, and this rmt was his last grasp at relevance. I'm betting that his blog numbers have dropped, hurting the one way he validated himself.

    ReplyDelete
  36. This blog is open to invited readers only
    http://nerdsoliloquy.blogspot.com/

    It doesn't look like you have been invited to read this blog. If you think this is a mistake, you might want to contact the blog author and request an invitation.


    Lel

    ReplyDelete
  37. Funnily his blog can't be accessed anymore. The old blog page/link is deleted and the new page requires a login, and will be completely deleted in the next few hours i Guss.

    ReplyDelete